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Herbs and Diabetes
With Patti Geil on December 11, 2000

Chat Room Administrator chat@childrenwithdiabetes.com Mon Dec 11 2000 20:15:00 Eastern US
The 'Food Matters' chat room is now open.


Mon Dec 11 2000 20:16:10 Eastern US
Linda/UT from 216.190.28.33
Hi

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:19:03 Eastern US
Linda/UT (Kim 13, Alla 12) from 216.190.28.33
I guess I'm the only one here :-(

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:20:07 Eastern US
Brenda H. (Marissa, 13--dx'd 9/89) from 10.0.1.3
Linda, try back in about 30 min. or so. Chats usually start around 9 Eastern. See you.

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:20:48 Eastern US
Linda/UT (Kim 13, Alla 12) from 216.190.28.33
OK, thanks Brenda...see you then

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:51:42 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I am the 1st hmmmmm

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:57:35 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Welcome to all. Thanks for signing on to our Food Matters chat tonight. It's my pleasure to introduce Patti Geil, our chat host. Patti is the author of The Carbohydrate Counting Cookbook (John Wiley and Sons) and of the ADA's 101 Nutrition Tips for People with Diabetes. Tonight her topic is "Herbal Supplements and Diabetes: The Good, the Bad, and the Don't-Go-Theres." I hope you have a lot of good questions so we can take full advantage of having Patti here with us.

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:57:58 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
The chat should start in about 3 minutes.

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:58:34 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hi Daniel - so far it's just you and me

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:58:54 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
great :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 20:59:04 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
better than nobody

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:00:06 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Yes, indeed, we are :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:00:37 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Hi Betty- I'm on-line, at my husband's office. Still having trouble with connections at home!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:00:39 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
you don't mind if i watch the game while we learn do you?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:00:58 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
Good evening.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:01:00 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Hi Patti :-) so glad you made it! :-o

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:01:18 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hi, Patti! Thanks for making the trip to the office to get on line --

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:01:41 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hey, Susie! Good to see you.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:02:06 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
What herbs can i take which will replace insulin therapy?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:02:10 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Daniel, if you're a multi=tasker, go for it!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:02:56 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
:-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:03:02 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
There's a beaut to start with Patti, you're on!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:03:11 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Hello everyone!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:03:16 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Computer problems always hit at the wrong time. Why don't we talk a bit about herbal and other supplements for diabetes? Are there certain supplements people want to learn about?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:03:24 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
Betty, after a recent chat room, I ordered, read and followed the Glucose Revolution regiment. It is working for me. Thanks

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:03:56 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
sorry, I am in rare form tonight . . must be the ginseng)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:04:51 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Daniel- at this point, we don't have a supplement available to replace insulin, but over 1200 herbs and supplements supposedly have glucose-lowering effects. More studies are needed in human subjects before we can recommend them.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:04:51 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
?? Glucose Revolution regiment ?? what does that consist of?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:05:39 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
I read in Diabetes Interview about a herbal supplement called Pynogenol which is supposedly been used by doctors in France to treat d retinopathy-have you heard about that?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:05:41 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, did you see Daniel's "rare form" question about herbals to replace insulin therpy?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:05:49 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I take a large amount of supps. none have proven to reduce me need for insulin.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:05:50 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hi, Heidyn - see you just had an anniversary!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:06:10 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Daniel- are you referring to the glycemic index information?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:06:25 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Yes,and glad to say it was a happy "bg" day too

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:06:53 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
that is one i take heidyn. it has a large amount of anti-oxident qualities (or so it is claimed)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:07:02 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
Daniel, it involves eating foods with low glycemic indexes.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:07:33 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
sorry Patti . . . I was questioning Susie's reference

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:07:53 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I'll have to read it.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:08:08 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
the only way for it to be proved wrong is to get d retinopathy-something you wouldn't want to do

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:08:14 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
What exactly is phynogenol? An herbal? A mixture of vitamins, etc??

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:08:29 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
Patti, are there any herbs that you feel are worth incorporating into our diets?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:08:57 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Heidyn- European physicians have been using herbals for quite some time. Bilberry is in the same family as pycogenol and was used to British Air Force pilots to improve night vision. A true link to preventing retinopathy has yet to be established. It is important to keep an open mind and look for scientific evidence.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:09:02 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
grape seed extract and or pine bark

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:09:54 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Susie- I think we will be seeing promising research in the next few years for several herbs- bitter melon, fenugreek and gymnema to name a few.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:10:37 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Patti? is there scientific evidence to support the use of any suppliments?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:11:53 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
could you name a few more Patti?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:12:06 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
I guess what I'm asking is, if you were D what would you be "trying" and in what quanitities?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:12:07 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
I know bitter melon is used in the Far East to lower BG, patti. What are the actions or potential benefits of the other two you mentioned?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:12:52 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
what do you think about chromium piccolunite for the type 1-I know it can be toxic in large quantities,but can T1's use it safely in moderate quantities(I must confess I already have,but am wondering about this subject) also,can it improve insulin sensitivity for the type 1's injected insulin?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:14:48 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
brb test time . . . talk slow :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:15:34 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty, the active ingredient in fenugreek is felt to be a fiber compound. Doses varied in the studies that have been done and of course, there are always those "lovely" side effects associated with high fiber intake!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:16:15 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
Hello
Patti and Betty, how can results of herbs and supplements be judged, when there is such variation in quality among products?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:16:24 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.18
Hello

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:16:38 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.18
Good timing, Judith

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:16:46 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Gymnema is an herbal used for diabetes in India and chewing the leaf decreases the taste bud sensitivity for sweets. However, it may have other effects assisting in improving beta cell function.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:16:57 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
Boy, I can't go ANYWHERE without my twin! LOL Hi, Marcia!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:17:32 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
You were 9 seconds late, Marcia! But then I am the older twin.....

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:17:56 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Jey, Judith!! Welcome..

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:18:31 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Great question, Judtih - I hope Patti will answer that one for us -- maybe some tips for those who want to use herbals -

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:18:39 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Judith- thanks for giving me a chance to share some key info on supplement safety! Unfortunately, although some supplements may act in a drug-like fashion, they are nowhere near as regulated as pharmaceuticals. That can mean several problems for people interested in trying them, ranging from contamination to having very little of the "active" ingredient in the product.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:19:01 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Jey Judith how are you? (sorry betty -- I could not resist)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:19:57 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hope you kids don't fight tonight!! LOLOL

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:20:16 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
I've caught the test bug-brb

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:20:29 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Pharmaceuticals have to prove they are safe before they can be marketed; herbals and supplements are free to be marketed until they are proven unsafe. A case in California earlier this year: products labeled as Chinese hypoglycemic pearls, which actually contained high levels of glyburide! They were finally taken off the market after individuals reported severe hypoglycemic reactions!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:21:15 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Patti I try to use a company with a good reputation. Is that sufficient?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:21:49 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Are there certain brands that are known to be reliable as far as strengths and lebelling, patti? Or how else can we try to make good choices?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:21:54 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
and could you name a few and evaluate mine?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:22:35 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
(Betty and I are one the same page)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:22:51 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
Contamination/lack of standards is my main hesitation re: herbals. Of course, many many "standard" medicines are derived from plants. Some are still produced that way, but many are now manufactured, with only the active principles synthesized.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:23:01 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Tips for trying supplements: ALWAYS let your health care team know about what you are taking. Certain herbals react with prescription and over-the-counter medications; case in point: gingko, ginseng and garlic have mild blood thinning effects and should be carefully monitored prior to surgery. Potential interactions with blood thinners too!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:23:50 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
But, Patti - those "pearls" worked - caused hypoglycemia!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:24:51 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
but they weren't herbal, Judtih -- they were contaminated (probably on puirpose) with a known drug for type 2 diabetes

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:24:51 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
RE: contamination and lack of standards. I think you should look for products that have the initials "GMP" on the label- meaning the company follows the "good manufacturing practices" similar to the government requirements. This is a self-monitoring group of the supplement industry.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:25:35 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.18
Vitamin E seems to be the one supplement that seems to have pretty much universal support.. I heard 800mg per day.. but I think in one study the participants took 1200-- any recommendations?.. and there are 2 formulas listed on the bottles I have purchased.. d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate and d-alpha-tocopherol

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:26:12 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Judity- yes, they caused hypoglycemia and could have severe side effects if taken in an unregulated manner. I shudder to think what would have happened if a child had tried a few "pearls". Few of these supplements have child-proof caps and can be very appealing for those with the "more is better" mentality!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:26:13 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, Ia ppreciate the sentiment of informing the team, BUT most docs and educators know diddly squat about herbals and wouldn't know what recommendations to make. Can you recommend a reliable resource for people who want to experiment with herbals and supplements.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:27:12 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Puritans Pride?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:27:57 Eastern US
cutie2000 from 209.86.47.12
Hello everyone!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:28:06 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Marica- Vitamin E has gone from the "magic bullet" to questionable due to the results of the HOPE study earlier this year that showed Vitamin E supplementation did not reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke. I think we'll find that antioxidants in combination, rather than pure vitamin E, may be most important.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:28:12 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Hi cutie

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:28:13 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Hi Cutie

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:29:28 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- you are so right. Staying educated on supplements takes lots of time and a special interest. I can recommend two good web sites: www. alternativediabetes.com for a good basic reference and www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/IBIDS for the hard-core scientific evidence.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:30:00 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Hi Daniel and Heidyn, how are you all tonight?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:31:02 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Another tip I might give for trying supplements is to try only 1 new thing at a time. The multi-herbal formulas are tempting, but they often only have very little active ingredient. Definitely not cost-effective!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:31:11 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
I rec'd a good handout on herbs and supplements this year after camp. Believe it came from the pharmacy school at Indiana Univ

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:31:27 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, not to sound like a dietitian or anything but aren't the most promising results of late coming out of foods (with the mixed antioxidents as you mentioned occurring naturally in them - especially fruits, veggies, and whole grains/legumes) rather than single supplements? Thanks for the websites - that will be a big help!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:31:46 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I don't see "GMP" on my supps. bad sign??

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:32:41 Eastern US
Susie (T2) from 207.29.206.70
You mentioned that in India gymnena is commonly used. Are there other herb/supplements commonly used in other countries for D?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:33:10 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
I read about three different vitamins that are good with people who have diabetes. One is zinc, and the other two are b something.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:33:26 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Judith- pharmacists and dietitians have been working together on the herbal/supplement area. I gave a presentation with a Utah pharmacist at AADE this year on the topic. It's especially helpful to know about interactions with prescription and over-the-counter meds.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:34:57 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- you can't deny that dietitian background! I am a strong supporter of food, not pills; but we do need to be open to the effectiveness of proper doses of a mix of antioxidants.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:35:04 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
supplements don't have the calories that foods do-but same vitamins

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:35:22 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hey, Cutie. I like your new "handle." - future endo

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:36:04 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
Hmm Found my info sheet. Came from "Methodist Meidcal Group Pharmacy Utilization" in Indianapolis

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:36:07 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
yeah, I plan on being an endo.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:36:46 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Cutie- magnesium is commonly deficient in people with diabetes. Zinc deficiency is not as common.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:36:57 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
veggies are very low in calories but have added benifits to just pills (i should eat more :-()

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:37:59 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
So a good place to start would be a quality multi-vit/mineral combination?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:38:52 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
One of the B vitamins may show promise in preventing or delaying the onset of Type 1 diabetes- niacinamide- a form of niacin. In preliminary work in New Zealand, 20,000 children with Type 1 siblings were given high doses of niacinamide over 7 years. The incidence of developing diabetes was reduced by about 60%. Awaiting results of an enormous study to confirm, though.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:38:56 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
When I was first diagnosed, my doctor said that I had to take a vitamin called "stress tabs with zinc" The book that I read I got out of my school library so there is no telling how old it is.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:39:30 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
:-O

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:39:36 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
:-0

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:39:44 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
:-o

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:40:11 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
Hi Just got back

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:40:12 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
There, I finally figured that one little face out! Every time it takes me three tries to get it right. :-(

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:40:19 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Hello Mike.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:40:27 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Hi Mike

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:40:57 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Judith, my dietitian background leads me to say a pill won't replace an unhealthy lifestyle. So do your best to eat a balanced diet and supplement with a standardized product. Can you work with an RD or pharmacist on your diabetes team for specific recommendations for your case?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:41:17 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Patti, were the siblings islet cell antibody positive or just sibs?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:41:36 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Hi, Mike

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:41:56 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, what do think of those vitamin/mineral supplemtns formulated specifically for people with diabetes??

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:42:08 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Marcia- the siblings were ICA positive, which is significant.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:42:18 Eastern US
Judith from 63.162.254.183
My "case" is a 15y/o boy. I rest my "case"! LOL

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:42:27 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
I take zinc magnesium calcium vit E&C

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:43:03 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
How long do you all think it would take for me to become an endo, including college, medical school and everything else?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:43:28 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Vanya is lots more restrained with his diet; Dave is a junk food junkie, left to his own devices.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:43:43 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Cutie... 11 years..

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:43:47 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Judith- I hope you don't get on his "case" too much!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:44:13 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
wow, that's really impressive - did the niacinamide supplements have any negative side effects, Patti?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:44:16 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
cutie . . concentrate on getting good grades and working hard to learn as much as possble.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:44:46 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- the "diabetic" multivitamins can be difficult to evaluate, particularly since we have very little human evidence about proper dosage, etc.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:45:10 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Hate to argue, Sis, but it would be 13 yrs. Takes board=certification as ped or internist, then 2 yr endo fellowship

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:45:15 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
11 years...that's it?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:45:46 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
one step at a time cutie :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:45:49 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Betty B.,in my humble opinion there not worth it-just a blend of vitamins-herbs thrown together with a d label to get alot of money(I've tried them, and they don't work for the type 1) you can get it cheaper just getting generic seperate stufff

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:45:55 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Okay, 11 and 13, only two year difference.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:46:11 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
So if the incidence of siblings with Type 1 diabetes is 5% (I hear different numbers) 1,000 of those kids should have developed diabetes.. any idea how many did?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:46:19 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Judith, at 15 I think it's part of David's job description to see how long he can live on junk without getting scurvy!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:46:30 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
I'm trying to take it one step at a time. My main goal is to get out of high school

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:46:32 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Niacinamide can have liver toxicity effects in large dosages, so we need the research results to determine the safest and most effective therapy. It appears that the niacinamide preserves beta cell function.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:47:06 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
4 yrs college, 4 yrs med school (Can someplaces do the whole bit in 6 yrs), then 3 yrs of residency as ped or internist, before endo fellowship

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:47:26 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Good goal for now,Cutie:-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:47:44 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Anybody have any information on the pump? I'm thinking about getting one when I go see my endo.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:47:50 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Glad you agree, patti - in spite of the fact that two of the brands were developed by health professionals who themselves have type 1 diabetes, they don't seem to be either well-documented or worth the money to me.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:47:54 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
I see that Dave gets one balanced meal a day (supper) but realize the rest of it is mostly junk. He is my 5th teen.....

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:48:00 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
She didn't say peds endo.. would you have to have an internal med or family medicine credential before going to an endo fellowship?... I suppose you would.. otherwise would be like becoming a neurosurgeon before general surgery.. I stand corrected..(I hate it when she's right!!)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:48:09 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Marica- don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but the research was done by RB Elliott, et al and published in J Ped Endo Metab in 1996 (if you have access :)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:48:39 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
cutie id be glad to answer pump questions in another room . . we need to focus on the herbs in this one right now :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:48:48 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
ROFLOL Marcia!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:48:51 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
I have a question, I'm really confused about this. Okay, here it is. If you are an endo and you have diabetes, should you still go see an endo?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:49:15 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
And you may become interested in something else when in med.school,Cutie-I know I'm interested in being an endo but realize I may become interested in something else by then

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:49:17 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
I got started going to www.minimed.com cutie

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:49:23 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Okay.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:49:44 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
l:-)l

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:50:18 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- are you seeing many individuals with diabetes using nopal (prickly pear cactus)? Since you're in AZ, I bet it's more common than here in the bluegrass of Kentucky!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:50:44 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Definitely, Cutie. There's an old saying "The doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient"

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:51:03 Eastern US
Jack from 65.8.175.87
patti, let me know when you're done.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:51:28 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
only in the Mexican American community, patti - it isn't in wide use - like showing up the health food stores and such, as far as I know.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:51:31 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
I'll have to remember that saying!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:51:35 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
I would say yes to that one cutie

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:51:53 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Patti? why does jack want to know when you are done?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:52:12 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Patti, didn't realize that we're neighbors. I'm in southern IN, just across the river from Louisville.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:52:57 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
Hi Judith, how long have you been in here?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:52:59 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Which suppliment companies would you reccommend? which do you use?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:53:31 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Daniel- Jack is my wonderfully supportive husband who drove me to his office in the dark rainy night so I could use his work computer since we couldn't connect to the server at our home!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:53:48 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
I see that some of the more "main stream" vit companies, such as Centrum, are getting heavily into supplements.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:54:18 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, I think it was heidyn that asked a question early on about chromikium piccolinate in type 1 - whether it is of any value in lowering insulin needs via an effect on insulin resistance. Care to comment?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:54:25 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
One a Day... also is selling a line of everything from --memory--to stress-- to prostate formulas..

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:54:44 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Thanks Jack :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:55:10 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Three cheers for Jack! :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:55:12 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Daniel- I would stick with supplements manufactured in the US or Germany; Germany is light years ahead of us in supplements/herbals use and safety. Then look for the GMP label. Another web site for checking purity and quality of supplements and herbals: ConsumerLab.com.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:55:35 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Yes, THANKS, Jack.. drive carefully going home.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:01 Eastern US
cutie2000 (future endocrinologist) from 209.86.47.12
I got to get off here. It's my bedtime. I got to be ready for school! Thanks for the information! I'll talk to you all later!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:04 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
It's definitely dark and rainy and WINDY here!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:15 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
c ya,cutie

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:37 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Nite, Cutie!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:41 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Bye, Cutie. With any luck, we'll have a foot of snow by morning and school will be cancelled!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:47 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Bye--Q-tee

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:56:59 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- The 1997 research with Chinese men and women with Type 2 showed evidence that A1C levels were lower in those who received 1000 mcg of chromium for two months. Other studies aren't as positive and an optimum dosage hasn't been determined. More need for research!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:57:43 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
but I know of no evidence that it's helpful in Type 1, do you?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:57:51 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
Pu-leesee send some snow down my way Judith,I have a paper due tomarrow..

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:58:08 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
Bye cutie!

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:58:50 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Besides blood glucose lowering benefits.. I hear about the anti-oxidants helping to prevent kidney and eye complications.. any reliable studies out there on that?

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:58:56 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Maybe we can close the chat with a monet of silent pryer for snow in the heartland!! LOLOL

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:59:05 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- nothing I can find in Type 1. Also concerns with toxicity, particularly in pregnant women.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:59:06 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
My endo is always amazed at my A1C because my machine numbers are always so high. I think it is the supps.

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:59:37 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty and "chatters"- Let it snow! And as Hippocrates said "Let food be your medicine>"

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:59:42 Eastern US
Heidyn (type 1 for two years and a day...) from 164.106.22.103
I'd just like to know if CP is toxic,safe to take in small quantities?I heard it can be dangererous to the kidneys

Mon Dec 11 2000 21:59:45 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
last A1C was 5.5

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:00:12 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
make that a "moment." My typing gets worse and worse!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:00:18 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Or perhaps, Daniel, you are having lots of lows at times you are not testing.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:00:37 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
thanks for the web sites and info. :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:00:55 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
dont think so Judith not a lot of lows

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:01:00 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
LOL I like the image of a "Monet" of silent prayer....

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:01:12 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I feel them :-(

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:01:52 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
I have seen that the usual recommended therapeutic dosage is 400 to 600 mcg daily, but certainly don't want you to think I'm recommending it. It's just not solidly researched yet.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:02:17 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
this chat should go for two hours . . .any seconds?

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:02:32 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
How about "Moderation in all things"?

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:02:41 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Daniel, have you given the continuous glucose sensor a whirl yet? We're seeing some VERY interesting unrecognized glucose patterns in type 1 -- fascinating stuff -- even in people who are not having any obvious symptoms

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:03:06 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
yes what an awful experience :-(

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:03:11 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Daniel- the topic IS endless, and ever changing. Stay tuned for further developments!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:03:40 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I need to try it agaian . but it just showed me how in accurate my machines are :-(

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:03:50 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Vanya wore the monitor in October. We found he was having bg excursions after eating, which is apparently a very common finding. Endo recommends giving a partial bolus 15 min or so before eating.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:03:55 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
In answer to the plea for an extension of the chat, I suggest we just invite patti back another time -- remember, Jack's waiting to drive her home through the dark and rainy night!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:04:15 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I will :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:04:31 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Betty- Thanks for having me "on-line". What a stimulating group! Can I sign off and call Jack to drive me home? :)

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:04:40 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Steadfast Jack! Good luck on the trip!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:04:41 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Yes, come again, Patti -- and have a safe drive home.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:04:46 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
tomorrow Betty?

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:05:28 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
Thanks so much Patti you 2 Betty

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:05:50 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Patti may be snowed in tomorrow...or stranded by flooding.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:05:51 Eastern US
Marcia...WA (Stephanie, 17--dx'd @ 2 1/2) from 206.190.132.125
Yes, thanks, Betty..

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:06:20 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Patti, thanks so much for a great caht with lots of useful tips and information. And a special thanks to you and Jack for making the extra effort tog et online in spite of your technical difficulties at home. I hope you can come back and join us again on another dte. Those of you who want to keep chatting, the room with remain open till 45 minutes past the hour.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:06:23 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
Thanks, Patti and Betty...and Jeff and Brenda!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:06:25 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I will be looking for the next one :-)

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:06:53 Eastern US
Judith (David, 15, dx'd at age 2 months; Vanya, 16, dx'd at 6) from 63.162.254.183
So.... "Talk amongst yourselves"! LOL

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:06:57 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Jack, I'll get together wih patti and find another time that she's available - then we'll post i on the chat clendar. Night all!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:07:11 Eastern US
Patti (Chat host) from 128.163.74.171
Bye all! Hopefully we'll talk again in the future..

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:07:40 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
I am convinced that suppliments can help the A1C even if machine numbers are not consistant

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:07:57 Eastern US
BettyB (Chat Moderator) from 205.188.200.190
Night, patti and all!! Happy Holidays!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:10:08 Eastern US
Mike (type 1) from 163.179.204.151
got booted. I missed it? good nite everyone!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:11:28 Eastern US
Daniel/FL (Pump User) from 24.164.54.74
night Mike

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:12:59 Eastern US
Brenda H. (Marissa, 13--dx'd 9/89) from 10.0.1.3
Sorry I am a few min. late. Just stopping in to thank Patti and Betty for all the interesting information!

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:13:07 Eastern US
Nuni (of Kelsey (5)) from 205.188.199.156
Is the chat still going on?

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:15:16 Eastern US
Brenda H. (Marissa, 13--dx'd 9/89) from 10.0.1.3
These "special" chats usually end around 10, but there are often chatters in the Parents room (it's for all people, even you grandmas!). See you there.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:15:58 Eastern US
Brenda H. (Marissa, 13--dx'd 9/89) from 10.0.1.3
The chat will be archived in the morning and the transcript will then be available.

Mon Dec 11 2000 22:19:20 Eastern US
Jessica from 152.163.197.69
hello

Chat Room Administrator chat@childrenwithdiabetes.com Mon Dec 11 2000 22:25:00 Eastern US
This chat room will close in 5 minutes.



                 
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